The Three-step Approach to Software Implementation | Graeme Tennick

“We have struggles, we have battles. You could see, at times, we don’t achieve things, but you only really lose if you don’t take any lessons from it. So you win, or you learn”. – Graeme Tennick, Chief Impact Officer of Tennick Accountants 

I am thrilled to bring you the third interview in our series of interviews from the Accountants BootCamp. If you haven’t already, I highly recommend you check out our previous two episodes and subscribe to the podcast to hear the upcoming interview with the inspiring Paul Dunn.

In this episode, I am joined by Graeme Tennick, Chief Impact Officer of Tennick Accountants. Tennick Accountants recently won the Small Firm of the Year at the Xero UK and Ireland Awards, and a week later, travelled 30 hours to attend the BootCamp. This just shows the calibre of people in attendance at the event. Among other things, we talked about:

• The process of applying for the Xero UK awards.
• Accountants Bootcamp is all about pushing boundaries.
• Every stage of entering an award is worthy.
• Aussies pushing boundaries in the accounting profession.
• Competition in the North of England.
• What the northeast is like in the UK.
• Self-promotion and marketing.
• Exploring your greatest passion?
• Transitioning from a manual to a cloud-based model.
• The proudest achievement of last year.
• Approved software drunk, getting 50 licences in 2018.
• Falling in love with the software.
• The three-step approach to software implementation.
• The time range for implementing the solution.
• It’s all about the implementation.
•  Lessons learned about implementations.
• We are hitting a buffer with accountants and technology, and how to overcome it.
• Challenges for accountants in the software industry.
• Early Adopters Hub.
• What did you get out of BootCamp and what are you hoping to get from it?
• Pushing boundaries with other progressive firms.
• Taking the leap of faith.
• The importance of collaboration.
• We either win or we learn.

Also, at the re:Boot event, we were fortunate enough to have attendees and speakers from the original Accountants BootCamp in the 1990s, including industry legend Paul Dunn himself. Led by Dunn and Aynsley Damery, CEO of Clarity, the three-day workshop focused on delivering repeatable, scalable services that benefit both the firm and the client. Many attendees used Clarity’s software platform to assist in delivering these services. And in case you missed it, Aynsley Damery joined me on a previous episode of Cloud Stories in May 2021, where we discussed “How to double your clients’ profits in 5 easy steps”:

→ https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Hg2rYG7mxiVFf1OL7tHuG?si=507287dc1e5f42a2 

Can I start by asking you to explain who you are and where you’re from?

Graeme:            Not a problem. Thanks for having me on as well. My name is Graeme Tennick from Tennick Accountants speaking from sunny-ish Brisbane.

Heather:           So we’re actually on the Gold Coast. This isn’t Brisbane.

Graeme:            I got a B in Geography. Quite embarrassing. At Tennick Accountants, we have been up and running for 11 years. And then we took this crazy step about two and a half three weeks ago. Let’s go to Accountants BootCamp in Australia, just around the corner. Approximately, 33 hours on the plane seems like a great idea, spoke to the wife. And she said, well if you want to go, go. I was like, don’t ask me twice. And here I am.

Heather:           Fantastic. I’m so shocked to see you here and come down two days ago and see you on the beach. That was quite a shock because you’ve been filling my social media feed because you have just recently won a Xero award.

Graeme:            Yeah. Just over a week ago. Congratulations. Thank you very much. It’s still a little bit surreal. I haven’t happened yet to get the Xero tattoo on the back. But I mean, I’m waiting for it. I don’t think I’ll get permission for that one. But yeah, so just over a week ago in London, it was “Small Firm of the Year”. And it was an amazing night. So thank you.

So what was the process leading into? And what was your thought process leading to applying for the awards?

Graeme:            So we’re a little bit before the awards about a year ago, we shared our vision for the firm. So our annual client awards. And it was actually a 10th birthday evening, invite your friends, family and clients to meet at the tallest bar in Newcastle. We book it up. And we shared with everybody having agreed it into what our vision for the firm was in terms of who we were going to be as a firm, what the perfect way in which would interact with customers, how it would work for staff, the bigger, wider impact in terms of wider world, our 360 approach of making the world a better place and how arrived in it. And as part of that, awards did actually crop up. It was quite…I don’t know if balloons are necessarily the correct word but I did say we will be going for and looking to win. The Northeast Accountancy Awards, the Xero Awards and the Accountant of excellence awards. And again, the team says it’s a bit bold move for us. Yep, you only try. In the end, they are some great firms in the UK. There’s no harm whatsoever and trying. Let’s just go for it.

So it was about November time last year I put in the application. And it’s actually a really nice exercise doing it because it forces you to actually reflect. So when you actually document some of the things down, you’ve done it. It’s like, wow, this is incredible. So put the application in. We’ve been using Xero for almost 11 years, maybe seven or eight of those. I’ve been using Xero for quite a while so when I got shortlisted I was like, wow, this is amazing. It’s like we’ve done something amazing, just based on Xero. We have done amazing things with wider things. This is incredible. But much more progressed in terms of Xero’s journey, and when we actually won, I was like, this isn’t better again. So yeah, it was amazing. Amazing. We’ve got shortlisted that gave great credibility to the team, but also the wider profession. And the reason why we’re here at the Accountants BootCamp is that accountants are pushing boundaries. We’ve seen the recognition of this field and said, Look, guys, we’re doing an amazing job here. We’re heading in the right direction. There’s a long way still a goal.

Heather:           Yeah, well done to you. And I think two things to that. One, every stage of entering an award is worthy. You’re feeling really good about yourself and celebrating and even that whole reflection process, depending on how you’re running your business. It really gets you to refine things that potentially you want to do just in that pure reflection process. But wonderful at every stage, you got to celebrate that. And the other thing is, what’s really interesting about this Accountants Bootcamp, is that there is a lot of really pushing the boundaries, pushing the digital dirt track, pioneering accounting firms who are here going, what’s next?

Graeme:            What in terms of pushing boundaries, I took out the ball last night when I said the Aussies and the Brits together, we have pushed a boundary or two there for us. And I think back to when I first entered the profession, a good few years ago, I mean, I am still at the ripe age of 40. So I mean, I’m still quite young. But when I first entered the profession, the idea of accountants just socialise with one another. I wouldn’t say it’s frowned upon but wasn’t very common. But then, now with the ethos of what we’re actually doing as a profession, the sharing of ideas, and the polite challenging of one another, in the knowledge, the fact that it’s been direct competition, sometimes were indirectly in competition. On the other end of the world, they’re just friendly nature of accountants being very supportive of one another is something which for me, personally, makes me feel very proud. I mean, even at the bar there last it was quite funny. And I did tell the young lady afterwards, I said, You do realise you gave us a hook. It was just because she was just chatting through certain things at work. And I just, allowed her to flip those around in a different way to how she was perceiving them. And it was lovely to do. I mean, I’ve, as the guys in the office will tell you, got any number of cheesy sins. But one of the big ones I have is either you win or you learn. It’s one or the other.

Heather:           I like that, you know, you win or you learn. Maybe that’s the tattoo.

Graeme:           Maybe. What I mean, is we have struggles, were have battles. You could see at times, we don’t achieve things, but you only really lose if you don’t take any lessons from it. So you win, or you learn.

Heather:           It sounds like that might be the title of this podcast.

Graeme:            I haven’t trademarked the copyright at all. I will agree on a contract afterwards, Heather.

Heather:           Very good. So one of the things you’ve got this accounting practice in the north of England, like even northern than Yorkshire. The most northern place in England.

Graeme:            And you said I wasn’t great with Geography.

Heather:            But from what I understand, the economy in that area has been quite challenged recently.

What does the economy in the Northeast area of England look like?

Graeme:            So if we go back several years here, particularly around the northeast, generally, it used to be mining industry, the traditional industries, a lot more traditional industries, such as shipbuilding and things like that.

Heather:           The Titanic was built out there.

Graeme:            No, we are not that. That was further south. Unless my History is terrible. But I think it was further south. I don’t think we played any part in terms of the build. But the mentality that comes with the more traditional sort of industries around that sort of era. And also what are to find out about who the British generally is, we are very proud. But since we were accountants generally, we’re not very open about things. We don’t really celebrate our successes. It’s a case of we feel proud internally, but don’t kind of do that from an outside perspective. So during (and I don’t want to keep referring to the pandemic), let’s just go generally over the past and the bruising years, and everything else like that. There were some amazing things that have come out of the Northeast of England and out of the UK. But we don’t sing and dance about it. I cannot dance nor can I sing, so I won’t be on the stage later on. But I don’t think we are vocal enough about what we do, which then often means there is a bit of a dip from a confidence perspective. Whilst we should be pushing boundaries a little bit more throughout the UK and predominantly in the Northeast as well. I think we’re worse than elsewhere in the UK for realising the potential we could realise again, with a theme for this event in terms of realising potential. And it is a bit of a shame because it’s not down to capabilities. It’s not the capabilities at all as it’s just a case of taking that one step for that 1% approach. And progress is progress.

Heather:            Excellent. That’s really interesting. And the issue of people not being self-promotional, and marketing themselves well. It runs through the world.

Can you circle back and give me an outline of your business? What it looks like and what sort of clients it services?

Graeme:            I won’t send any listeners to sleep by telling the full story. But our firm was predominantly built as many other accountancy firms were established first on the compliance-based manual model. We then transition to the cloud-based model of doing compliance-based tasks, and we then transition to the cloud-based model of doing compliance and noncompliance-based tasks. And now I will, I’ll try only to use it on advisory just once. But we are now a more progressive firm working with business owners, with as many as we possibly can to establish and say, Look, nobody’s selling business just to see if tax. I mean, our joke is we throw tax parties in terms of payroll tax, woohoo, let’s celebrate and see if that’s something for which you should do.

Heather:            That’s an ibis, and it’s forming a nest back there. Typically.

Graeme:            We’ve got ibises in the UK, but the hotels. So we tried to push the boundaries of businesses. We want to say, Look, you didn’t set up business just to see tax. You want to actually kind of create something. It might be a case for better work-life balance, might be a case of greater earnings, might be a case of building something really special. What is my greatest passion is to sit down with a business owner and say, Look, where are you? Where would you like to be? And how can we help you get there? But then off the back of that, you then start creating like a vision board. And then you’re starting to realise. Last year one of my proudest achievements was the back end of last year. It was set in three business owners just off the back of guiding them with their business development. And then these same clients, literally hugging me because of how close you got that relationship. And it’s just incredible because it’s one of the most fulfilling things you could ever possibly imagine, from doing something for which I think the profession is duty-bound to provide.

Heather:            Absolutely, we need you to set up the marketing campaign to get more people into the industry, don’t we?

Graeme:            Could try my best, but you probably got to put subtitles on this podcast. I’m not sure I’m best to have somebody kind of just translating for me right off.

Heather:            I can understand you this morning but last night I was struggling.

Graeme:            You even suggested we do this last night.

Heather:            I was going to have hand signals to slow you down.

Graeme:            Then place hand signals.

Heather:            It’s going to be excellent.

Talk about the technology that you’re using in your firm.

Graeme:            Okay. The term I often get associated with, because I’ve used it a couple of talks I’ve done, is I approved getting “software drunk”. And that goes back to….was it Xero 2017 or 2018? And when we first started on the technology journey, I did get rather excited because I mean, bearing in mind at that time, I was very much Excel-oriented desktop software, all that sort of jazz.

Heather:            Who doesn’t love a good spreadsheet?

Graeme:            Well, getting back to the BootCamp. I think I did quite light up but often it was internal excitement, not something we should ever really get clients off their seats. And so when I went to Xerocon 2017-2018…

Heather:            And this is in the UK?

Graeme:            In the UK, yeah.

Heather:           And you made it that time?

Graeme:            I did make it at that time. There were no issues with rail lines or anything like that. I did actually make it. It wasn’t November. I think it was the last time where we couldn’t get down because of the weather. I just fell in love with the software because, all of a sudden, I saw bright colours and lines and charts, which I immediately skipped several steps and thought, oh, clients are gonna love this, all of a sudden. They’re gonna see all of this, and they’re gonna just fall in love. And they’re going to want to pay us to do all these extra add-on services. And it’s just gonna be so exciting. So I fell in love with it. And then all of a sudden, I bought 50 licences.

Heather:            Oh my Lord, they must have loved you.

Graeme:            That was just one software. I bought other things as well. Because bearing in mind, of course, when you have a look and say, Oh, well, it’s one licence for 25 pounds or 50 licences for 100 pounds? Well, you get this year, you need to upgrade, don’t you? Support a few other bits and bobs? And I did I got carried away since then. And I’m good at specific bits of software. But since then, we now have a three-step approach for software. Because if I was railroading software to the point whereby clients on staff weren’t quite ready for it and the words of someone in our office, and I’m sure you’ll appreciate this said, we don’t quite have the foundation’s right. So now our three-step approach with any bit of software is we go through a research stage with a prototype stage and then go through the implementation stage. And often those three stages are not managed by me, because a lot of the answers to those different stages of implementation research and prototype need to be led by the team because they know what I don’t know. And they’ll be seeing things which I don’t see. So whilst I would be involved and say, Look, I see there’s a potential opportunity here. And I said, Look, I think it’s a potential opportunity here. I would welcome your input. And then I empower the team to kick things with some input from people. What about this? What about that, and then the lead on it, which I find far more beneficial?

How big is the team who’s making the assessments?

Graeme:            The team at the moment is nine.

Heather:            Are nine people assessing what the solution might be?

Graeme:            Yes. So what we do is there’s a brilliant book called “Scale at Speed” by Felix Velarde. So with that, you segment what your annual goals are, which again, are determined by the team collectively and again, obviously, naturally, I will suggest things you will agree that I will drive things forward to an extent in terms of an outline. But then what we do is segment the different tasks which need to be completed in order to get us to our goals. Now by segmenting those tasks. If say, for example, there was a piece of software that we were going to look to implement among the team, we will decide who was going to be the champion of that software, then that individual will be the one responsible for driving that forward. And then there will rely on other members of the team to support them. And obviously, the various stages that might be a case whilst they will lead the overall project, perhaps initial research might be completed by Georgia. And the prototype states that you’re best off voting by Triveni. The actual everyone tests are maybe better off delivered by Andy. So they will just oversee the project. And they will lean on the best members of the team suited to each individual aspect. And then obviously just empowers everybody to kind of contribute in ways which they are best suited.

Let’s pick Dext or Receipt Bank solution. How long did it take you to implement it from start to finish with that process?

Graeme:            Well, that was probably one of the easier ones that were one of the easier ones. It’s a bit like Xero. It was one for which didn’t take any real education with the team. Yeah. And because we were already transitioning to a paperless office, the team got it really really easily. Now, I don’t want to do any disservice to Dext because I think there’s a lot of work which goes on behind the scenes which are often missed, but because the training provided and the guidance documents were quite straightforward, all of that was presented to the team to say look, clients as a whole would love a slicker system in terms of paperwork. We as a firm would like the same too. Here’s a solution. Now in order to do that thereafter, which again is where made the whole task significantly easier this has been produced for all clients. Run the dip in dip out of various alternatives. It was Dext, and that was it, there were no alternatives. There was no manual. It’s a case that is coming in across the board. So it meant there was no uncertainty, there were no people that kind of have a little bit of involvement this week and won’t have any more involvement for six months further on down the line. So that there was probably alongside Xero or Xero is a little bit more in terms of trading was probably the easiest bit of software we implemented. But again, the steps that were set in place for us as a result of Dext aren’t the needs of the business or because the business we’re not very much on board. I get it. I know why you’re doing this. Let’s go for it.

Heather:            But you have not given me a time range there.

Graeme:            With Dext, I believe we implemented it within maybe a matter of weeks.

Heather:            Wow.

Graeme:            So maybe six weeks, six weeks of I was kind of being a little bit awkward. Six weeks, I would say it was in not fully working perfectly because it takes longer.

Heather:            It’s refinement.

Graeme:            Yeah.

Heather:            Yeah, excellent. I think it’s really useful for people to hear how long it can take, how long they need to allow to take it, and what things they actually need to work through. And in thinking about taking it.

Graeme:            But there are other bits of software whereby there have been lots of bumps along the way. And it’s been over a year. So I mean, we’ve used Karbon HQ, and I absolutely love Karbon, which is an absolute animal. But we did a lot of things wrong and we had a lot of resistance. I did several things which I could have done wrong with the implementation of that software. But that was also the software which made us learn so much. So that in that instance, there, that was one where if I’d managed the implementation and had the team driving forward a little bit sooner, and got the dedicated resource to champion that a little bit sooner, and mapped it all out, we would have progressed a little bit quicker.

What did you learn about implementations?

Graeme:            Implementation, for me, was done by the wrong person.

Heather:            Okay.

Graeme:            If I was to say, one lesson driven by the wrong person. The idea it’d be presented, but then empower the people that are gonna be using it more frequently. It’s such a simple concept, like remembering the Xero training initially, whereby they often said about having people champion things.

Heather:            Yes.

Graeme:            And I didn’t consistently do that across the board with other pieces of software and I should have.

Heather:            Yeah. That is really important. It’s important to have a champion, but also protect the champion from the people who are negative about the whole move, with whom they have to deal with it. They have to be somewhat insulated from that, in ways that they can sort of keep existing and going through life. So I’m really excited to hear about your using Karbon.

Were you excited about the integration that Karbon has just recently announced?

Graeme:            What I’ve tended to find is that, again, it’s perhaps something for which, again, learn a lesson or two, there’s several, I mean, the API is various bits of software, there are APIs, which have the integrations there, but they don’t often do exactly what you want to do. And follow the brilliant conversation with Guy Pearson from Ignition a while ago, I couldn’t quite appreciate what goes into API integration. So Ignition is going to integrate Karbon. But for the majority of people, it will do the job. It didn’t quite do what we want it to do. So I actually got to use the E-word again, Excel. I mapped it out quite a while ago. And I went with this to the team in terms of what our process maps need to look like with the various bits of software, we needed it. And from there, we have manually overwritten several aspects to make sure it works for us. So for example, when a client signs up to Ignition, we have turned the API off with Karbon, because we want several steps to manually kind of happen which totally appreciate when just one client, the integration doesn’t actually allow for that. So by doing what we’ve done, we’ve used up here to have different parts of the step automatically kick into play. So that’s where for us, I’m not gonna say I don’t like when I hear about new integration and things like that.

Heather:            Yeah.

Graeme:            But being where we are on the journey, sometimes they are helpful, but more often than not, we’ve already tailored the steps a little bit more than what integration would allow. But it’s lovely to hear the integrations there. But I do think/fear, perhaps, with such a position there now with accountants and technology whereby we’re hitting a little bit of a buffer. And I think that buffer is two in two different ways. So that sort of first buffer for me is you have the progressive firms that have been using the software for quite a period of time. Then you’ve got those where there’s still taking the tools on board and you’ve then got those who maybe don’t want to. Let’s just put it that way. The money’s been made by those who’ve already committed to the software. The software companies are in a little bit of a sticky position because they maybe don’t have the new influx of money to progress the software further because those people are still wanting to dip their toes and will not want to progress or not come forth. So there’s no real new money to keep investing to do new things, just automating some software. You’ve then got a gain on the monetary side of things in terms of where firms actually are. Because there wasn’t this new influx of money into these companies, the evolution of the same software plugins, again, has significantly slowed down because they keep investing in something because they’ve got the same money they’ve always had, and the costs of just maintaining that platform are higher than they ever have been. So I think you’ve almost got this little bit of a challenge for which I’ve got a lot of sympathy for software companies because the main cause has been filled in terms of what accountants and business owners really need. But now you’ve got an accountant screaming, to say, look, we really need something more, we need this to be doing this, this, this and this. But the software companies are saying, Look, this is really hard for us to know. Because to make this work and make this what you want it to be, we’re not sure how we’re gonna make it viable. So I think it’s, it’s tough. It’s very tough.

Heather:            Yeah, it is. And I think you kind of have the same sympathies that I do for the software companies in that. We see them trying to sell to us, but they’re also small businesses. And they’re also navigating their own cash flow, and what’s going to be the best return on investment for them. And we need to be mindful of that.

Are you the type of firm getting early and giving feedback?

Graeme:            Yeah, we do. I mean, I’m quite fortunate as well to be part of and called the early adopters hub.

Heather:            Yes, yes. Tell me about that.

Graeme:            So with the early adopters hub, I’m really passionate about, like developing software, as he developing software, contributing towards developing software. I have no coding experience, so just in case any software copies reach out. That’s not my skill set. But I’m really passionate about seeing software companies grow, develop and see what comes out the other side of things. So when I was invited to the early adopters hub, for which might be nearly three years ago, was a little while back. It was really interesting just to see what the roadmap was looking like for new software companies coming to the market, and existing software companies wanting to evolve in terms of different changes they want to make. So what we do is we sit down. Software companies say, look, this is what we’re looking to do, what are your thoughts on it, they can then build it out and we can test it, and then they can potentially take it to market. And it’s a really interesting facet. And this is what you often hear because it’s directly with the business owner. You’ll actually hear from them and say, Look, this is a isn’t going to work. And then you test and see that’s all good. But this is your competition here. And it’s exciting. It’s empowering. But also it’s quite, quite hard. Never been harder. I think it’s the whole cloud-based journey and the opportunities for people coming to the market. It’s not what it was.

Heather:            Yeah, it’s a headwind at the moment, rather than a tailwind. So I think we can go that way. So we’ve been at the Accountants BootCamp, you’re here for three days. Yes. We had the first day yesterday.

What did you get out of yesterday? And what are you hoping to get out of this event?

Graeme:            A good night’s sleep? So what did I get out of yesterday? The main thing I find was several different events. But certainly this one, again, is about pushing boundaries with other progressive firms. What I really enjoyed more than anything, yesterday was the refinement of things support on set a number of things, which I found just absolutely fascinating. And it’s about the change. And obviously, where accountants are, where business owners are and positioning that in such a way whereby we can really add value. And one of the keywords was potential. To enable and identify the potential in the business and demonstrate business owner, you needn’t have to accept where you are, and you can make the worst mistake, such an impact. It just reinforces it. But it also kind of makes a DNA of a business to recognise that this isn’t something which you have inconsistently, across different bits of your business at different points of time. You’ve got to have it throughout the whole business. And once you’ve got that among the team, among everything that you do, but also the point whereby you it’s maybe the 1% improvements that will just kind of kickstart things. Then you’ll really take off. I mean, the way I’m segmenting this, I have got three pieces of advice on day one. So I’m modelling a few more. As I kind of sense the team listening to this in a cold sweat. I will then condense all of this down into probably not more than three main tasks, and then maybe six or seven sub-tasks. Just obviously kind of see us going through but once we had those aspects there in the talks, then how to chat with various members who are here on the implementation side of things. I’m already starting to create that roadmap now. That roadmap is to then be taken back to the team. And just sit right. Okay, guys, what do you think? Let’s see the impact on the agency of the case studies. It’s for them to see the cases. This is what’s happened there. What do you think? Then I think we’ll start getting pretty excited.

Heather:            Yeah. Look, I’m just so impressed that how many cutting-edge firms are at this event and how they are so engaged with the event. And I do think there is merit in completely discombobulating yourself and putting yourself on a 35-hour flight, and messing up your whole body and time clock. And just turning up in a room of people that you never met before. Most of them. I think you’ve met probably five of them before and absorbing and having this electricity go out from everyone. So that’s, that’s really brave of you to do that, and a big risk, and I think the rewards will be good.

Graeme:            But I think off the back of that, sometimes you’ve got to take that leap of faith and make such a significant step. Because not that I could have gone to a conference down the road, not the Accountants BootCamp was on down the road. Because it’s such a big commitment. It’s literally put me in a position where this has to work. So I mean, I’m jumping ahead a little bit, but nobody else is listening around us. I know we’re gonna make one clip in terms of what this is going to take. But this event is going to pay for us as a family to take the kids to Florida next year. It’s there’s no way I’m sat in front of the kids, the kids have been out for a week. There’s no way I’ll be sitting in front of them next summer, saying we’re not going to Florida. So as far as I’m concerned, the cost of this trip has taken a little of a dent out of the Florida pot, but it’s gonna add such an amount to it. I’m gonna be sat in front of them and say, kids, you know that trip to Australia, that kind of contributed towards this trip to Florida. Yeah. And that alone is such a driving force in my mind. This won’t do anything other than succeed.

Heather:            Yeah, absolutely. And I think that doing things like this step you up another level. And sometimes it’s like, we step up by common going to university or finishing a qualification or winning an award and, and you’re actually powering through because you just got a few things all happening at once. But it’s going to have a massive step-up impact on you. And people are going to give you a platform, and they’re gonna listen to you, which is also really exciting.

Graeme:             Oh, yeah, well, I hope so. Because again, for me, we can only do this collectively as a profession. And the voice of a handful of individuals is not going to make the impact we really need to make. But accountants have never had such an exciting and powerful role to fulfil. So if we can use whatever platforms we have whatever contacts we have to really project that message to business owners to say, Look, you don’t have to accept where you are, you can be better, what you don’t have, you could potentially gain, what skills you don’t possess, you could train and develop everything else like that, to really see the potential realised, is sort of optimism, one of the most exciting and fulfilling things for which we can be proud to contribute towards.

Heather:            Absolutely.

Graeme:             With that in mind, I think it’s never been such an exciting place to be what we must do in a collaborative sort of way as we are doing that in terms of sharing insights, and thoughts. But I would love nothing more than to get together as a group, again, further down the line to share more success stories off the back of this. We did that, that client achieved this, I achieved, etc. I couldn’t be more thankful for this moment. Because life’s short, I’ve spent the most of it.

Heather:            Absolutely. And find joy and travel to Florida.

Graeme:             I hope so. We are, we are.

Heather:            Absolutely. Graeme, thank you so much for joining me on the Cloud Stories podcast.

Is there anything else you’d like to leave with our listeners? And how can they get in contact with you?

Graeme:             So the message I would like to leave with is a line that I started with a little bit earlier. And I’d like everybody just to think of the line. We either win, or we learn. I think it’s a very positive way to look at an outlook on life generally. And if everybody wants to get in touch with me, my name is Graeme Tennick. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. If they’d like to send me an email, it’s Graeme. I’ll spell it correctly because, sorry, there are easier names to spell. That’s G-R-A-E-M-E at T-E-N-N-I-C-K dot co dot UK. But Graeme Tennick, LinkedIn, or drop me an email, I’d love to connect, love to collaborate, and help out as much as I possibly can. And let’s as a profession, make a difference to make this world a better place than the morning we arrived in.

Heather:            Thank you so much. It’s been an absolute joy having you on the show and I’m sure our listeners will learn a lot from you. I’m sure a lot will get in contact with you.

Graeme:            Thank you for asking me.